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Posted: 06-12-07 Thu 2:25 pm
by upatissa
曾几何时,罗马天主教与中共是势不两立,罗马天主教甚至于不承认中国单方面委任的中国主教。可近年来,这种关系悄悄的改变了,居于中国的崛起,在国际政治上的力量,已经越来越吃重,几乎与美国,苏联平起平坐,这是许多国家无法否认的事实。哪怕是标榜道德,宗教的梵蒂冈,也不得不向政治现实低头。历史上宗教和政治的角力,前者如果不是和后者结合,永远是输家。那些一直以来轻视/卑视政治的佛教徒,也是时候好好面对现实的世界。

如果纯粹从宗教/道德而不考虑政治因素,教皇这种决定何尝符合神爱世人的原则呢?

Vatican, in shift, says Pope won't meet Dalai Lama
By Philip Pullella, Reuters, November 27, 2007
VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict has no plans to meet the Dalai Lama next month, the Vatican said on Monday in an about face from a previous position that irked China.

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said "no audience is planned" between Benedict and the Dalai Lama and added there had never been an official, written statement of a meeting.

A Vatican official who spoke on condition of anonymity told reporters in late October that the Pope would meet the exiled spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism on Dec. 13.

The meeting during the Dalai Lama's visit to Italy, which would have been their second since Benedict's election in 2005, was widely reported in the world media.

Beijing's communist government responded early in November by saying such a meeting would "hurt the feelings of the Chinese people" and urged the Pontiff to take action showing he "is sincere in improving relations".


The Dalai Lama has this year met U.S. President George W. Bush at the White House, as well as the leaders of Austria, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and Canada.

The diplomatic blitz has been met with a stream of vitriol from Chinese officials and state media, calling the 72-year-old a "splittist" bent on independence for Tibet and accusing him of orchestrating anti-Chinese activities in the remote region.

In New Delhi, a Dalai Lama representative said: "His Holiness's objective is to promote inter-religious harmony and he will not create any inconveniences for anybody."

SOME DISAPPOINTED

Father Bernardo Cervellera, head of AsiaNews, a Catholic news agency that specialises in China and earlier this month also reported on the Dec. 13 meeting, said he was disappointed that the encounter would not take place.

"It was clear from the start that Beijing was not happy about this meeting," he told Reuters.

Benedict has made improving ties with Beijing a major goal of his pontificate and issued a 55-page open letter in June saying he sought to restore full diplomatic relations with Beijing that were severed two years after the 1949 Communist takeover.

Catholics in China are split between those who belong to a state-backed Church and an underground Church whose members are loyal to the Vatican.

Relations hit low points several times in recent years as the Vatican criticised China for appointing bishops without papal approval. In May 2006, Benedict accused China of "grave violations of religious freedom".

Relations warmed significantly two months ago when the Vatican approved the installation of a new state-approved Catholic bishop of Beijing.

The Dalai Lama met Benedict last year in a low profile meeting Vatican said was strictly religious in nature.

Benedict's predecessor John Paul met the Dalai Lama a number of times during his 27-year papacy and the Dalai Lama attended a major inter-religious conference hosted by John Paul in 1986.

Italian politicians are divided over whether the Dalai Lama should be allowed to address parliament during his visit.

Posted: 06-12-07 Thu 2:27 pm
by upatissa
或许受不了内部的压力,不出几天,又改口可以见了


http://www.buddhistchannel.tv/index.php ... 72,0,0,1,0

Pope meeting with Dalai Lama now on 'informal' agenda
Catholic World News, Nov 29, 2007
The Vatican -- An informal meeting between the Pope and the Dalai Lama could still take place, despite an announcement earlier this week stating that a meeting of the two leaders would not occur.

French Newspaper La Croix reports that Vatican Press Office director Fr Federico Lombardi said the Pontiff could hold a "private meeting" while the Buddhist leader is on his tour of Italy next month.

Fr Federico Lombardi told reporters that he cannot rule out the possibility that the Pope might meet informally with the Dalai Lama.

He went on to explain the earlier statement that "no audience is planned" referred to an official visit, listed on the papal schedule. If an informal meeting takes place it will not appear on the Pope's official agenda.

In October 2006, the Pope met with the Dalai Lama, but the Vatican underlined the meeting was a "private courtesy visit" and the conversation was confined exclusively to religious matters.

Posted: 16-01-08 Wed 12:17 am
by 爱心博士
达赖喇嘛放弃政教合一? :roll:

我想:不容易!
错纵复杂的因缘,不是他想反传统就成的...

几年前,到纽西兰去参加一个研讨会,达赖喇嘛是主题演讲者,到场的时间保密,来的时候身边包围了几个彪汉,围站在他身边似道人墙,几乎挡去大家的视线.在保护下,冲过人潮即刻步上台.

虽然不否认,达赖喇嘛的磁场与摄受力很强,从容不迫的亲切笑脸,及谦卑屈身的合掌,不停的以温馨有神的目光与走道两旁的参与者打招呼.缓缓步过身边,却很让人有为之动容的感触,那一刻,我只觉得莫明的感动,难以形容...

看到他在台上开示,保镖们个个排在台下,目光一点也没放松的注视与观察四周,我心酸........

一个出家人,不可能简单的出家人,达赖喇嘛!
若不是政教合一,他需要如此?
想不政教合一,他能吗?

Posted: 16-01-08 Wed 12:11 pm
by upatissa
爱心博士 wrote:达赖喇嘛放弃政教合一? :roll:

一个出家人,不可能简单的出家人,达赖喇嘛!
若不是政教合一,他需要如此?
想不政教合一,他能吗?
政教合一在藏传佛教来讲,确实是错综复杂的现象。达赖喇嘛个人倾向于民主制度,他希望自己未来只代表宗教导师,西藏流亡政府就是以民主模式操作。可惜就算是贵为西藏政治与宗教领袖的达赖喇嘛,也还是抵不过西藏传统文化及当世(西藏与中国)政治局势的业力。要与不要政教合一,不但达赖喇嘛决定不了,藏民也有身不由己的选择。这是达赖喇嘛无奈,西藏佛教的悲哀 :cry:

作为藏民领袖,我们还是把达赖喇嘛定义为佛教传说中的转轮圣王(一个深受佛法熏陶的政治领袖)而不是宗教领袖吧。

Posted: 16-01-08 Wed 9:11 pm
by upatissa
悟极 wrote:大义都不明白,何以谈修行?不问天意如何定,自己岂敢乱说?
法界唯权!非你所说!政也盲政!教亦邪道!转轮非他!小心因果!
兄台“亲共“思想极浓,才会有此种偏见。
若信天意,何须佛教? :shock: 我左看右看,无论在“教“在“政“,达赖喇嘛远比兄台来得正。 :wink: 兄台宣说似是而非的佛法,恐怕兄台还是“自己顾自己“的因果吧!! :ketuk:

Posted: 17-01-08 Thu 10:06 am
by 悟极
upatissa wrote:
悟极 wrote:大义都不明白,何以谈修行?不问天意如何定,自己岂敢乱说?
法界唯权!非你所说!政也盲政!教亦邪道!转轮非他!小心因果!
兄台“亲共“思想极浓,才会有此种偏见。
若信天意,何须佛教? :shock: 我左看右看,无论在“教“在“政“,达赖喇嘛远比兄台来得正。 :wink: 兄台宣说似是而非的佛法,恐怕兄台还是“自己顾自己“的因果吧!! :ketuk:
你要问问天,问问法界。可不要自己张着大嘴乱说话。今世正法住世就是在中国大陆。转轮圣王就在中国的山东。你能够决定乾坤?今世极乐世界标法之人就是共产主义的大同世界的实现!你可问过佛?所以我在这里交谈的是修行者的话。不是一些个人自己的思维乱道。修行人自有修行的言语和认识。不能像不修的人那样随意乱说。因为我知道因果。当然不修行的人也不可能怕因果,因为根本就不明白因果。因果发生的时候一定要好自为之!

Posted: 17-01-08 Thu 10:57 am
by 老黄
悟极 wrote: 你要问问天,问问法界。可不要自己张着大嘴乱说话。今世正法住世就是在中国大陆。转轮圣王就在中国的山东。你能够决定乾坤?今世极乐世界标法之人就是共产主义的大同世界的实现!你可问过佛?……
哈哈哈哈!
有趣。
法情原来引来了一位大修行人。

老黄观察日久,觉得悟极兄的看法与我们是很难一致的,因为背景不同,生活环境不同,所接触的“法”更加不同。
Upatissa和爱心博士可以继续讨论达赖喇嘛的事件,毕竟只有身居海外的人,才可以更加客观看待。
悟极兄既然那么重视天意(原来天意也是因果,稀奇稀奇!或许这是山东的佛法),就请继续发言,看看是不是会有同情人。

Posted: 17-01-08 Thu 2:07 pm
by renzhi
老黄 wrote:
悟极 wrote: 你要问问天,问问法界。可不要自己张着大嘴乱说话。今世正法住世就是在中国大陆。转轮圣王就在中国的山东。你能够决定乾坤?今世极乐世界标法之人就是共产主义的大同世界的实现!你可问过佛?……
哈哈哈哈!
有趣。
法情原来引来了一位大修行人。

老黄观察日久,觉得悟极兄的看法与我们是很难一致的,因为背景不同,生活环境不同,所接触的“法”更加不同。
Upatissa和爱心博士可以继续讨论达赖喇嘛的事件,毕竟只有身居海外的人,才可以更加客观看待。
悟极兄既然那么重视天意(原来天意也是因果,稀奇稀奇!或许这是山东的佛法),就请继续发言,看看是不是会有同情人。
说悟极是个大修行人,我不会同意。但他是个修行人。因为他认可因果,讲究天意,一切认定法界的答案。他说的这些都是正确的。今世法界就是在山东。有神通的人就能看到。
而其他这些人绝对不是修行人,甚至是不怕因果胡说八道之类。连修行的基本常识都不明白。整天拿着佛的经书乱说自己的话,却不能明白自己在做什么。可怜。修行人不需要任何人的同情,只要法界知道他就可以了,因为他做的一切都是在给自己修,都是要相应天意法界。而你们把天意把因果抛到了一边,大说乱谈自己的意思,也不问问法界是否同意,这就是你们造因果的开始。所以,悟极说的对,一切用因果来看看自己。千万不要不在乎因果!

Posted: 17-01-08 Thu 5:01 pm
by upatissa
renzhi wrote:
说悟极是个大修行人,我不会同意。但他是个修行人。因为他认可因果,讲究天意,一切认定法界的答案。他说的这些都是正确的。今世法界就是在山东。有神通的人就能看到。
而其他这些人绝对不是修行人,甚至是不怕因果胡说八道之类。连修行的基本常识都不明白。整天拿着佛的经书乱说自己的话,却不能明白自己在做什么。可怜。修行人不需要任何人的同情,只要法界知道他就可以了,因为他做的一切都是在给自己修,都是要相应天意法界。而你们把天意把因果抛到了一边,大说乱谈自己的意思,也不问问法界是否同意,这就是你们造因果的开始。所以,悟极说的对,一切用因果来看看自己。千万不要不在乎因果!
唉,恐怕不出十年,山东又要出个卢胜严啦,干脆我先帮你们想个名字,就叫“山东真法界佛“吧 :x 。。。 师心不师古,非证言证,好弄神通,此乃宗教灵修道路上最危险的事情。:shock:

Posted: 17-01-08 Thu 6:24 pm
by renzhi
upatissa wrote:
renzhi wrote:
说悟极是个大修行人,我不会同意。但他是个修行人。因为他认可因果,讲究天意,一切认定法界的答案。他说的这些都是正确的。今世法界就是在山东。有神通的人就能看到。
而其他这些人绝对不是修行人,甚至是不怕因果胡说八道之类。连修行的基本常识都不明白。整天拿着佛的经书乱说自己的话,却不能明白自己在做什么。可怜。修行人不需要任何人的同情,只要法界知道他就可以了,因为他做的一切都是在给自己修,都是要相应天意法界。而你们把天意把因果抛到了一边,大说乱谈自己的意思,也不问问法界是否同意,这就是你们造因果的开始。所以,悟极说的对,一切用因果来看看自己。千万不要不在乎因果!
唉,恐怕不出十年,山东又要出个卢胜严啦,干脆我先帮你们想个名字,就叫“山东真法界佛“吧 :x 。。。 师心不师古,非证言证,好弄神通,此乃宗教灵修道路上最危险的事情。:shock:
你能认识你自己吗?